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The time arrives in the career of every Carnethy Interviewer
when the tables are turned and he has to answer the questions instead
of delivering them. We test our Virtual Interview Programme (VIP) which
is still under development in a secret laboratory under Carnethy Hill.
Human Carnethy Interviewer and Burns Scott Trophy holder Alex Menarry
is the first guinea pig (to be replaced by new technology when VIP is
working properly). His first reaction was defensive - - -
After Willie Gibson’s warning about the connection between
Interviews and broken legs, I’m not at all sure I wish to go ahead with
this. So I refuse to be Interviewed. It’s even more embarrassing than
This is Your Life.
Tough. It’s a condition of membership. What was your
first awareness of the hills as objects of interest?
Being brought up on the West Lancashire plain, the billiard
table between Wigan and Southport, the mountains were to the east, near
Wigan. Parbold Hill and Ashurst Beacon, 150 metres high. The interest
- it was a good courting spot.
What was the first significant hill that you climbed?
After the north face of Ashurst Beacon, the Lake District
was the first mountainous place I saw, at the age of about 15. I think
the first big one was Helvellyn via Striding Edge. Not a bad introduction,
looking back. When I was at Calder Hall in the late 50’s, getting experience
as a nuclear power station commissioner, the Lake District was the spare
time occupation. The west side has some superb mountains.
How did you get hooked on mountaineering?
I guess I was hooked early on but serious mountaineering,
as opposed to mere hill walking, started in Scotland. Until we moved to
Largs I knew nothing of Scotland. I continued the hill walking type of
exploration in the Renfrew Hills. Real mountaineering – exposure for the
fun of it, find an interesting, scrambly route - started in the Highlands
a bit later. To pursue the metaphor to it’s disgusting conclusion, the
barb really became inextricably embedded then and its been festering ever
since.
When did you start running?
Running was something I did on the rugby field or was
dragooned into for the School Sports Day. Maybe a cross country (3 miles?)
as a bit of training for rugby. It’s very sad to think that it didn’t
occur to me to continue running for the sheer enjoyment. My concept of
running then was that to be legitimate it had to be done on the track
and if you weren’t Olympic standard, don’t bother.
When did you first compete in a hill race? Tell us about
it?
Kentmere. (Said in a hushed
and trembling voice, with wild-eyed glances all around) The
day in 1972-ish when half a dozen of us innocents nearly perished after
Keith Burns’ suggestion that we try it. Vivid memories:- wearing plastic
Adidas cross country shoes; being left for dead on the first climb; emerging
into "the weather" at the big wall; the endless traverse along
the terrifying, steep snowfield with one slip bringing certain death;
being totally alone on Kentmere and just guessing the direction back;
the knee-deep bog half way down; the wonderful feeling of having survived
at the end; (I’ll never sin again, God, honest).
There’s a rumour that you spent some time working in
Italy and didn’t notice the mountains - - -
Well, that’s largely true, apart from a few, snatched
days in the Apennines local to Rome. The big opportunities in the Dolomites
were missed. My excuses are that the job was very pressurised – on occasions
I would take the family off for a holiday and have to dash back for some
crisis. It was very important at the time. First British export order
for a nuclear power station, in competition with an American Plant not
far away etc etc. And the kids were very young – three under fives.
We believe you had an earlier existence as an overweight
executive who smoked.
Everyone smoked in my young day. Just watch a film of
the period – or are they period films? In Italy I must have been about
15 stone and smoked Nazionales. The food and wine are wonderful. Everyone
should spend a long time in Italy
Is there any truth in the story that you once spent some
time inside a very warm nuclear reactor because you had lost something
in there; or were you doing an early experiment in genetic modification
to recover your lost youth?
In those days, the idea of re-entering a nuclear reactor
once it had operated at any reasonable power was totally crazy. However,
a problem arose at Oldbury which only manifested itself during power raising.
After a lot of Deep Thought we realised we had to go in to solve the problem.
It was very strange. The interior didn’t look any different from all the
times we had been in there during the commissioning and yet we knew it
could be lethal to stay too long. I am authorised to say that my running
re-started soon afterwards and ever since I have been the superman you
all know and hate to be beaten by. It may have been the world’s first
genetic engineering. There could have been other effects, too. Nita and
I didn’t have any more children after that .
Have you ever had a life threatening experience in the
hills?
Not that I have been aware of. Scared, yes. Terrified,
yes. Lost, alone and panicking, yes. Expecting to walk over a cliff in
white-outs, yes. But no actual incidents, where only a hairs-breadth .
. . . . . . .
Describe your ideal day in the hills.
0600 rise and decide where to go. 0605 change mind 33.3
times and be in an agony of indecision. 0930 arrive at the start of a
route eventually chosen on a random basis. (This used to be with large,
heavy pack and boots. Nowadays it is in Walshes with minimalist body cover,
in a little pack or a bum-bag, depending on the weather). Set off alone
or with special friends. Spend 3, 4, 5, 6 or any number of hours skimming,
gazelle-like, over rough country with dry feet. This can also be done
in the foulest, wet and horrible conditions, it doesn’t make a scrap of
difference to the enjoyment. Hurtle to the top of the steepest climbs,
beating everyone, farting on the way to make their day. Stop whenever
the spirit moves for food or to wonder at the view. Suffer badly over
the last few miles to impress on the brain that this has been an excellent
day. Recover quickly, have a hot shower, don warm, dry clothes. Consume
vast quantities of excellent food and drink. Feel thoroughly smug at having
had a great day out.
What was your most rewarding competitive achievement?
I am not competitive at all. (And don’t snigger behind
your hand like that). There’s an article in the Newsletters somewhere
when I tried to analyse why and to provoke others into talking about their
competitive urges. Mark James has an interesting word about it in his
Millennium Book article. He talks about keeping it under control, which
appeals to me. Whenever I enter a race, the satisfaction is in the wanting
to do it and finishing. One lovely enjoyment is beating anyone much younger
than myself! It would be great to beat X, Y or Z but I know it’s unrealistic,
so why spoil a good run worrying about it? The older I get, the greater
the feeling of privilege and satisfaction in just being able to, and
wanting to, get out there and do it. Sometimes I get competitive on
a long day out with others but that’s only so I don’t fall too far behind
and become a drag.
Describe a typical week’s running.
Most of my running is pavement-pounding in Darlington.
The ideal would be to get into the Dales or North York Moors each weekend
for a biggy but that only happens a couple of times a month. It seems
wrong somehow to use a car to go for a run. At present the incentive is
to wind up the fitness a bit for Torridon and Iceland – and maybe another
KIMM, if I get an invitation this year. 40 miles a week at the moment,
with the aim of 50 a week plus 2 or 3 hours in the hills if the knees
and ankles will stand up to it.
Which was your finest day in the hills?
There have been so many. A lot are associated with the
dreaded list ticking, I’m afraid. The big Ben Avon round, Roisbheinn Ridge
in winter, Beinn Leoid last year, Stac Polly one late evening, Dave Peck’s
Glen Affric rounds, The Saddle and South Glen Shiel, sledge hauling on
Glas Maol before I went to Iceland. I can’t pick a best.
Do you think the campaign to remove the exclusion rule
and to keep hill racing within SAF was worth the effort?
I thought at one stage the Carnethy campaign was over
the top. It seemed so simple – either pay your £11 and race or don’t race.
Then I began to realise the hidden agenda was much more important. Is
hill running part of general (track) athletics or not? Is Scottish hill
running to be part of a Scottish umbrella organisation or in a UK one
(the FRA). The astonishing thing was when the simmering dissatisfaction
with SAF among all the athletic clubs was uncovered. At the end of the
day I was cheering the club on. I now see that the democratic principle
must be upheld. That’s why the effort is worth it. The athletes must dictate
what happens, not the remote executives.
Do you approve of the present model for national parks
in Scotland?
In principle, yes. Watching how National Parks have worked
in England, I’m convinced a National Park say in the AONBs is essential.
(Trivia question – which was the first National Park in England?). The
alternatives are fights between pressure groups, Landowners and The Ramblers
Association or whatever. That must be the wrong way to balance the needs
of the people who live in these special areas with the use of them by
the likes of us. Scotland has yet to experience the sort of pressures
between farming and the many aspects of leisure which are endemic in England.
But it will come.
Where do you stand on Percy Unna’s Rule which set an
early conservation policy that remote landscapes should be left without
artificial aids to access and movement?
I’d better learn who Percy Unna is and what he has
to say before I attempt to answer that one. Initial reaction – the time
has passed when anywhere on Earth is free from human management or intervention.
For intervention read destruction of what was there for the millennia
before Homo Sapiens was invented. This includes even the remotest conceivable
places – they are all polluted in some way. The question is in which direction
should management go? I don’t think fencing large areas off and leaving
them is a practical policy.
[Percy Unna was president of the Scottish Mountaineering
Club in 1937 and proposed a set of "rules" to the Council for
the National Trust for Scotland intended to preserve wild environments
from man made interference. Following Unna’s Rules, for example, you would
not build bridges to ease passage across difficult rivers. See "A
Century of Scottish Mountaineering" Brooker, (Scottish Mountaineering
Trust, 1988) p 115 for background]
Dr Watson deduced, from his clear mountain-top view of
the stars, the time of year it was, his latitude, due north and the prevailing
weather. His fellow hillwalker Sherlock Holmes, by contrast, looked up
at the sky and deduced that someone had pinched their tent. Is there a
lesson for hill runners here?
Yes. Watch your backs. There’s always someone who wants
to make off with the best goodies. And they’re crafty bastards.
You’re an amateur mathematician. Neolithic sites exist
which were laid out using Pythagoras’s Theorem (e.g. Daviot, Boat of Garten).
They are a thousand years older (by carbon dating of trees) than Pythagoras.
Do you think the Scots beat Pythagoras to it?
I thought I knew a bit about Neolithic remains in Scotland
but I didn’t know that. Fermat said that there aren’t any more solutions
to the Pythagoras type relation if the power 2 becomes any bigger integer.
It’s possible to stumble over the simpler solutions. The clever thing
is to recognise they are examples of a much wider, infinite series. I
suppose it’s possible that Neolithic man recognised that but, without
seeing the equation on a rock, its difficult to say.
What are you reading, and why?
Julian Barbour’s ‘The End of Time’ and Kaufmann’s ‘Universe’.
Barbour because Brian Cunningham recommended it. We had long and deep
philosophical discussions on the ferry trip to and from Newcastle/Bergen
a couple of years ago and we zeroed in on Time as being a serious problem.
If you have a few hours it’s like this . . . . . . . . . z z z z z z.
Universe because it’s a very good, readable, amazing and almost unbelievable
description of what goes on in it. I have to confess I haven’t understood
a word of Barbour thus far and I’m half way through. I have just finished
"The Whole Shebang" by Timothy Ferris, which I recommend to
everyone.
Time is what stops everything happening at once. There’s
no need to complicate things. How could the club be improved?
I think all the Club Officers and Committee should be
ladies, with the possible adoption of a couple of token males to make
the tea and sandwiches. The girls have shown us (males) the way in the
racing scene. I’m convinced they would have a new approach to running
Carnethy, of which the stunted male mind can’t even conceive. I may even
attend my first AGM this year to propose a few names.
After this brief test the Carnethy Virtual Interview
Programme has been sent back to the lab for further work. Ed.
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